Not a Tolkien quote: Thirteen Goodreads Fails

You may know that I am not overly fond of the website Goodreads as it made clear to me a couple of years ago they do not really care  whether a quote is correct or not as this would upset their registered  customers. Things have not become any better by the fact the service was  bought by Amazon in 2013.

Anyway, if you care for any author, living or dead, and browse through their choices of quotes you will certainly find some that have nothing to do with the author in question.

So, on any lazy October day during a global pandemic I had a look at their Tolkien and J.R.R. Tolkien quotes.

1. Human stories (...)

Now, this is taken verbatim from the 1968 Tolkien in Oxford documentary by BBC2 (with this video (Si apre in una nuova finestra), starting at about 21:55). Luckily enough, Oronzo Cilli has mentioned this in an essay which you can read his article (Si apre in una nuova finestra) for Tolkien's Library.

It is rather surprising to find something like this on Goodreads, to be quite honest, and I am little perplexed as to where it might have come from. All other quotes are either simply a copy & paste from Tolkien's books or lifted from the films but this one would need an actual minimum level of interest in Tolkien's life and works which goes well beyond the "let's google some **** on Tolkien."

Anyway: The quote, in itself, is heavily cropped and gets one main point wrong - there is no obituary. Tolkien mentions in talking about death as a keyspring to The Lord of the Rings a quote by Simone de Beauvoir.

(Please note this nice essay by Brenton Dickieson on the term keyspring (Si apre in una nuova finestra) which I never thought of considering in depth, having translated Jay Lake's Mainspring (Si apre in una nuova finestra) series in which the universe is, in fact, a clockwork).

This is taken, as Cilli notes, and it seems quite easily understandable from Tolkien's words, from a review of a biography of German composer Carl Maria von Weber (Si apre in una nuova finestra), mostly known for his opera Der Freischütz (Si apre in una nuova finestra):

I  don’t  know  if  would  you  agree  with  that,  but,  anyway,  that  is  what—there  was  a  quotation  from Simone [de] Beauvoir that I read in the paper only the other day, which seems to me to put it in a nutshell.  May  I?  I  think  I’ll  read  it  to  you.  This  is  apropos  of  the  untimely  death  of  a  musical composer  of  whom  I’ve  always  been  extremely  fond,  Carl  Maria  [von]  Weber,  who  died  at  39  of tuberculosis, and the man who has written his biography actually quotes these words of Simone.

Tolkien has a piece of paper, probably a cut-out from the Daily Telegraph (Cilli's assumption), IN HIS WALLET WITH HIM, and reads DIRECTLY FROM IT.

So what we have here is, in all likeliness, a review of a biography which to this day is considered one of the best or the best biography ever to be written on von Weber: Carl Maria von Weber by John Warrack, first published a few days before the interview with Tolkien took place.

So this gets the translation of a de Beauvoir quote right but not the Tolkien part *grin*

2. Little by little, one travels far.

I happen to have written about this:

"'Little by little, one travels far' is not a J.R.R. Tolkien quote (Si apre in una nuova finestra). TThnsdwohatdw, Part 2."

And it is still there. Ah, well. I had notified the Goodreads team on April 2nd, 2014, about this. Their answer was:

However, we have decided to allow the other three quotes to remain on the site.  It can be difficult to prove that a quote doesn't belong to someone.  Unless we have compelling evidence that a quote definitely cannot be attributed to a certain author or celebrity, we tend to let it remain, especially when many of our members have added it to their profiles.

The quote they said they were taking off was:

It simply isn't an adventure worth telling if there aren't dragons.

It is still there, several times, or there again.

The three quotes they did not accept as non-Tolkien quotes were:

“Fantasy is escapist, ..."
“A single dream is more powerful than a thousand realities.”
“Little by little, one travels far.”

All of those quotes were accompanied by my blog posts, of course.

3. Uhm...

Although I do appreciate the wish to write and speak 'Elvish' I am fairly strongly in the Elvish as She is Spoke (Si apre in una nuova finestra) corner.

This is the Quenya 101 translation (Si apre in una nuova finestra) of Gandalf's All we have to decide ... (Si apre in una nuova finestra) One might argue now that this is a) originally a line written by J.R.R. Tolkien and b) translated into one of his invented languages. However, as a translator I would like to have another opinion as translation, as good as it may be, is always a new piece of art, independent of its origin.

P.S. The Quenya 101 site seems to be no longer online or in a private mode so you would have to go through the Web Archive to find out more about their work. Their Soundcloud seems to be still active so if you want to listen to a possible pronounciation, head on over (Si apre in una nuova finestra).

4. ... and for a great deal it seemed good to him ...

When I read this evidently shortened quote by Tolkien I thought "mkay, this could be real but it sounds ... odd." And it does indeed:

But now Ilúvatar sat and hearkened, and for a great while it seemed good to him, for in the music there were no flaws. But as the theme progressed, it came into the heart of Melkor to interweave matters of his own imagining that were not in accord with the theme of Ilúvatar, for he sought therein to increase the power and glory of the part assigned to himself. [my emphasis]

This is from The Silmarillion, more specifically from AINULINDALË: The Music of the Ainur. How the deal came into being I do not know but there you are.

And no, the tagging system with Goodreads really is no alternative to proper quotes and a decent citation.

5. But where our hearts truly lie ...

With all of the following quotes I will make it quick and simply show you the screenshots, including a note here and there.

This one is taken from the Lord of the Rings' Prologue. 1. Concerning Hobbits, and it does show one of the styles the Infernal Trio used in their script changes - slight rewording.

Hobbits are an unobtrusive but very ancient people, more numerous formerly than they are today; for they love peace and quiet and good tilled earth: a well-ordered and well-farmed countryside was their favourite haunt. [my emphasis]

Film trilogies, here we go.

6. It is no bad thing to celebrate a simple life.

One of the most iconic pictures from the Lord of the Rings film trilogy.

If you look for possible inspirations within the story for this quote it might be King Elessar in The Lord of the Rings, Bk. V, Chp. 10, The Black Gate Opens:

Aragorn looked at them, and there was pity in his eyes rather than wrath; for these were young men from Rohan, from Westfold far away, or husbandmen from Lossarnach, and to them Mordor had been from childhood a name of evil, and yet unreal, a legend that had no part in their simple life; and now they walked like men in a hideous dream made true, and they understood not this war nor why fate should lead them to such a pass. [my emphasis]

7. Wood-Elves! They're going to the harbour ...

And again, a case of clever rewording:

‘And I’ve heard tell that Elves are moving west. They do say they are going to the harbours, out away beyond the White Towers.’ Sam waved his arm vaguely: neither he nor any of them knew how far it was to the Sea, past the old towers beyond the western borders of the Shire. But it was an old tradition that away over there stood the Grey Havens, from which at times elven-ships set sail, never to return.
‘They are sailing, sailing, sailing over the Sea, they are going into the West and leaving us,’ said Sam, half chanting the words, shaking his head sadly and solemnly. But Ted laughed. [my emphasis]

This is from Bk. I, Chp. 2, The Shadow of the Past, and it is said by Sam down at the Green Dragon.

8. I gave you the chance of aiding me willingly ...

Saruman says these words in the film and something similar is in the book:

‘He was cold now and perilous. “Yes,” he said. “I did not expect you to show wisdom, even in your own behalf; but I gave you the chance of aiding me willingly, and so saving yourself much trouble and pain. The third choice is to stay here, until the end.” [My emphasis]

This is from The Lord of the Rings, Bk. I, Chp. 2, The Coundil of Elrond. Gandalf recounts his encounter with Saruman in Isengard. Jackson, good old splatter director that he is, does not disappoint with the changed wording.

However, why he would go for something that sounds either like a quote by the Marquis de Sade or could be a veiled allusion to the Via Dolorosa, the path that Jesus supposedly walked on the way to his crucifixion, I do not know.

Every wizard was kung fu fighting, I suppose.

9. Go back, Sam! I'm going to Mordor alone...

If you ever wanted to look for two words in The Lord of the Rings at the heart of many decisive moments in the story Go back! would keep you busy for quite a while. Be that as it may, it is not a Tolkien quote.

However, I have only now realised that - nifty scriptwriters that they are - that the Infernal Trio foreshadowed the horrid story change in The Return of the King when Frodo sends Sam away.

Kudos, well done.

But then they only had to follow Tolkien:

‘We must stop him,’ said Pippin. ‘And that is what he is worrying about, I am sure. He knows we shan’t agree to his going east. And he doesn’t like to ask anyone to go with him, poor old fellow. Imagine it: going off to Mordor alone!’ Pippin shuddered. ‘But the dear silly old hobbit, he ought to know that he hasn’t got to ask. He ought to know that if we can’t stop him, we shan’t leave him.’ [my emphasis]

This is taken from The Lord of the Rings, Bk. II, Chp. 10, The Breaking of the Fellowship.

Just as this quote:

‘But I am going to Mordor.’
‘I know that well enough, Mr. Frodo. Of course you are. And I’m coming with you.’ [My emphasis]

This is certainly one of the more hilarious scenes in the films (re: Sam  almost drowns but comes out of the water and only his hair is wet) with  Captain Obvious making an exciting appeareance:

10.  Mordor. I hope the others find a safer route ...

Just to show you how fun this quote thing can be:

J.R.R. Tolkien > Quotes > Quotable Quote.

Are there Unquotable Quotes? *grin*

Anyway. The above quote is, again, from the films. All of the scripts are online (Si apre in una nuova finestra), by the way, so you can always easily check for yourself where a quote comes from.*

I am not quite sure why Jackson/ Boyens/ Walsh did not consider Sam capable of saying Yet we may but that shall be their secret until the world's ending.

"‘We will go, and may the others find a safe road! Strider will look after them. I don’t suppose we shall see them again.’
‘Yet we may, Mr. Frodo. We may,’ said Sam." [my emphasis]

Do you know who did it better? Ralph Bakshi.

And I am not saying that Bakshi was better - only in some respects. *grin*

11. Mordor. The one place in Middle-earth ...

This is a great example of two unconnected places used to form new dialogue:

"That’s the one place in all the lands we’ve ever heard of that we don’t want to see any closer; and that’s the one place we’re trying to get to! And that’s just where we can’t get, nohow. We’ve come the wrong way altogether, seemingly." [my emphasis]

This is taken from The Lord of the Rings, Bk. IV, Ch. 1, The Taming of Sméagol.

Add to this:

‘I would not have it so,’ said Faramir.
‘Then what would you have me do?’
‘I know not. Only I would not have you go to death or to torment. And I do not think that Mithrandir would have chosen this way.’
‘Yet since he is gone, I must take such paths as I can find. And there is no time for long searching,’ said Frodo. [my emphasis]

This is taken from The Lord of the Rings, Bk. IV, Ch. 6, The Forbidden Pool.

12. I can' recall the taste of food ...

Funnily enough, this does not even get the film wording right.

It is one of those scenes that remains touching thanks to Tolkien's own words but the Infernal Trio added some cheesy 'spring in the Shire/ fresh strawberries and cream' to make it sound ...

I don't know? Cheesier?

Anyway, this is the original quote:

’No taste of food, no feel of water, no sound of wind, no memory of tree or grass or flower, no image of moon or star are left to me. I am naked in the dark, Sam, and there is no veil between me and the wheel of fire. I begin to see it even with my waking eyes, and all else fades.’
Sam went to him and kissed his hand. ‘Then the sooner we’re rid of it, the sooner to rest,’ he said haltingly, finding no better words to say.
(...) ‘Come, Mr. Frodo!’ he cried. ‘I can’t carry it for you, but I can carry you and it as well. [my emphasis]

This is taken from The Lord of the Rings, Bk. VI, Chp. 3, Mount Doom.

13. How do you go on, when in your heart ...

This is one the quotes that draws much from the books but from those spaces that Jackson and his team decided not to show - The Scouring of the Shire, for example.

‘Still I have already done much that you will find it hard to mend or undo in your lives. And it will be pleasant to think of that and set it against my injuries.’ [my emphasis]

Those words are spoken by Saruman in The Lord of the Rings, Bk. VI, Chp. 8, The Scouring of the Shire.

However, I think this passage is very much behind the scene in the films:

‘Alas! there are some wounds that cannot be wholly cured,’ said Gandalf.
‘I fear it may be so with mine,’ said Frodo. ‘There is no real going back. Though I may come to the Shire, it will not seem the same; for I shall not be the same. I am wounded with knife, sting, and tooth, and a long burden. Where shall I find rest?’ [my emphasis]

This passage is in The Lord of the Rings, Bk. VI, Chp. 7, Homeward Bound.

Now, please accept my apologies if I seem to have been bashing the film trilogies a little in this particular piece but I am well aware they have had an incredible impact on our community and much of it, quite evidently, in a very positive manner. They certainly changed my life by giving me the opportunity at nitpicking their wording choices *grin*

Credits: All screenshots taken from The Lord of the Rings by Peter Jackson and The Lord of the Rings by Ralph Bakshi. Wrong Quotes taken from Goodreads.com (Si apre in una nuova finestra). Correct quotes from The Lord of the Rings by J.R.R. Tolkien.

P.S... Do you remember the ONE quote they promised to take off the site?

* Checking quotes is easy only with the books. Everything else is a bloody nightmare. Seriously.

This post was originally published (Si apre in una nuova finestra) on Oct 26, 2020.